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Archived from Bulletin Board

For information on the gall bladder and liver flush as well as the products described on this bulletin board, visit the main area of the site:

http://www.kitchendoctor.com/healthconditions/gallbladder.html

Gall Bladder Flush, Part I

To the best of my knowledge, the flush is safe. I have done it 3 or 4 times in my life. The first time I did it (with only the olive oil and lemon juice -- sometime in the 70s in Hawaii,) I had no symptoms whatsoever. I was curious and disappointed that the entire effort was attended by zero drama.

The second time, I was in such severe distress that I was allowing completely unwelcome thoughts of surgery into my mind. I was in so much pain that I forgot I had Stone Free on my kitchen counter. I took six Stone Free tablets every half hour for a few hours and the pain went away completely until the next heavy meal. I discovered that I was peculiarly sensitive to microwaved food (see http://www.cancersalves.com/Microwave.html).

Though I love Indian food, I found that the pain after eating Indian food in the evening was unbearable whereas after lunch, there were no problems. I discovered that at lunch, all the food was taken from the buffet where it had been cooked in large quantities in conventional pots. However, in the evening, the food was microwaved because Indian food takes a long time to prepare and the 70 choices on the menu were not all ready to serve.

I have since steadfastly refused everything microwaved. In any event, my second gall bladder flush began with Stone Free and then the apple juice fast and then the olive oil and lemon juice -- and like the first was uneventful except that I was permanently cured of the gastric distress that had haunted me for over a year (1986-87).

So, I decided to do this again, basically every five years. I did it, together with a friend, in 1991 or 1992, this time only with the apple juice and later the olive oil and lemon juice.

I confess that the 4th and 5th efforts were token. I was doing them "to be religious" about maintaining good gall bladder function. I gagged a bit on the olive oil and didn't get down the recommended amount (maybe 8-12 ounces went down.)

Various practitioners have discussed this at length among themselves, and they have slightly different protocols, but some require the use of homeopathic remedies or somewhat harder to obtain items.

Obviously, I do not advise anyone who is in total agony to procrastinate about treatment. However, if relief is nearly immediate with a few herbal tablets, give it a try. Don't take any risks and if symptoms are severe, it is probably safe to assume that there are some large stones that should be emulsified before flushing with the olive oil and lemon juice.

Maria Treben used radishes, but I don't like them so can't speak from personal experience on that.

What I see, however, is that people who have had their gall bladders removed continue to have fat metabolism problems, but the problems affect other parts of the body. Therefore, I am all for saving the gall bladder if at all possible.

Best wishes,

Ingrid

 

I use a mixture of hydrangea root and apple cider. One quarter of a cup of the chopped root and let it sit overnight in 2 cups of apple cider (not juice). In the morning you can bring it to a gentle boil, and drink 3 juice glasses a day. Hydrangea is a very valuable herb for reducing stones as they are forming and for safely dissolving them so elimination is safer. Treatment can take up to 3 months and should be stopped after 3 months or so. It can be started up again after a month off.

Warmly -
Mary L. Conley, ND, Herbalist

 

I, too, have been told I have gallstones. I have not been told how large they are, but my GP and surgeon both say I should have the gall bladder out. Because I have had other abdominal surgery, it is unlikely I will be able to use laproscopy. That means a LONG recovery with normal surgery. I am looking to alternatives.

My symptoms are not evident all the time. I get one or two severe attacks each year. My concern is causing more problems by trying the gall bladder flush. Any thoughts?

 

Stone Free is one of the safest products you could find. With your symptoms, it would sound totally within reason to try the Stone Free to see if the problem will resolve without a flush.

 

I am looking for some direction before submitting myself to a doctor and their various tests and treatments. I have many symptoms of gall bladder disease, but certainly not classic symptoms. I don't have any painful attacks, but after eating fatty food I have indigestion, bloating, and nausea off and on for several days to a week. This also includes (and I've never heard this described in relation to gall bladder) the need to have bowel movements more often, passing malodorous gas, and with a constant feeling of fullness in the bowel area and frequent urges to go to the bathroom, even when I don't have to. Several days to a week after eating the fatty food, things calm down, although mild indigestion is a continual "off and on" problem. I also considered that this could be irritable bowel syndrome, as I was diagnosed with that years ago, but the symptoms are completely different.

I've read the ingredient list in Stone Free, thinking it wouldn't hurt to try it in case the gall bladder is the problem, but I'm highly allergic to dandelions. I've also considered the Flush, but wonder, if a greasy snack can make me ill for days, how sick I could become drinking olive oil? On the other hand, I want to avoid seeing a doctor if at all possible, as I don't have a lot of trust in the medical field. Any help, suggestions, comments?

 

Dear Susan,

It sounds like you have indigestion, what Ayurveda would call "low agni," i.e. not enough gastric secretions to metabolize all you eat.

The dandelions in the Stone Free are the root, not the flower. I don't know if that makes any difference, but just wanted you to know that it isn't the flowers in your garden.

The olive oil doesn't make anyone sick with gall bladder symptoms. I.e., the pain and so forth is not a problem, but a few people do barf it up if they try to chug it down too fast. Also, they can become queasy and positively disoriented at the thought of oil for about a month. I still feel that this is worth doing on a periodic basis.

This said, you have the option of the apple juice fast, radishes, and other things before trying the flush.

I could look for another Stone Free type formula, but most would have dandelion root. I can give you the name of an herbalist who could make up a special formula without the dandelion.

Then, you could consider an intestinal flora. The odor suggests that the ratio of putrefactive to healthy bacteria is off. You need the flora and I really like Eugalan as it works quickly.

You can also think about eating food that is easier to digest and religiously avoiding microwaved food.

 

Thanks so much, Ingrid,

I really appreciate your help but I wonder if you could clarify a few things for me.

First of all, what could be the cause of not enough gastric secretions? Is the gall bladder still a possible culprit? How could stress play into this?

Second, I am going to try the apple juice and then the flush, but how do radishes work into this? I love radishes, and I searched your site, but couldn't find how to use them.

Third, I looked on your order page for the Eugalan but didn't find it. Is this something I can buy in a health food store?

I hope to try the flush this weekend... is one day off from work enough to recover? I work Saturday but want to try it Saturday night, recover Sunday, and have to work Monday again. Will report my experience here in case anyone is interested.

Thanks again,
Susan

 

Susan,

Aren't you trying to do too much all at once?

The apple juice fast takes three days.

The story on radishes is fascinating. Maria Treben, the famous Austrian herbalist, advised a friend of hers to eat radishes to avoid gall bladder surgery. The woman followed her doctor's recommendations but asked if he would save the stones. She had these embedded into the handle of a paring knife. One day when she was cutting radishes, the door bell rang and she dropped the knife in the bowl. When she came back all the stones had dissolved . . . well, that's the story.

Low gastric secretions can be a matter of constitutional type and/or stress because adrenaline inhibits the secretion of gastric juices. Some people can stimulate secretions by eating savory food that is exciting to the senses; but if the ability to produce hydrochloric acid, digestive enzymes, bile, and so forth is limited, corrections have to be made in the diet and through supplements.

Eugalan is available on the page devoted to intestinal flora:

http://www.kitchendoctor.com/intestinalflora.html

Best wishes,

Ingrid

 

Hi Ingrid:

I took your advice and purchased some Stone Free. I have a physical scheduled in about one month at which time I will also be discussing the possible scheduling of gall bladder removal for late June or early July. I would love to avoid that if I can.
What should I expect as I take the Stone Free? Are there any outward signs that it is working? How long should I take it before considering the apple juice fast and/or the flush.
In a previous message, Susan indicates her concern in doing the flush considering the amount of oil. That is also my concern because the attacks I have, which luckily are far and few between, are excrutiating.

Also....kind of off topic...every time I try to access the Planetary Herbals web site to learn a little more about their products, my browser does an automatic shutdown. Do you use their web site without difficulty?

I'm the anonymous who wrote earlier about your fast and flush. Thanks for responding and pointing me to Stone Free. I hope it works!

 

You can use 12 tablets a day and not experience any side effects except that your tolerance for greasy foods will gradually increase.

Depending on your starting point and diet, you could be fine in 1-3 months, maybe six.

While I highly recommend this particular Planetary Herbals product, I do not carry more than half a dozen of their products because you have to keep looking at who does what best. This happens to be a difficult product to make because it contains herbs that easily go hairy on you because of the moisture. They have sorted out the issues, but in years past, I often had to send back shipments due to complaints. We list the product on this site:

http://www.kitchendoctor.com/gallbladder.html

 

After some overindulgence in fatty food last week,
I am having an acute attack of gallbladder problems right now, with nausea, flatulence, under-rib and right shoulder pain, aversion to fatty foods (even the smell, or the sight of a greasy meal on TV), and alternately foul-smelling greenish stool, and chalky stool.

I plan to call my doctor tomorrow (although I want to strenuously resist gall bladder removal surgery, even if he recommends it.)

An "Herbalist" book I had told me about the three day apple juice fast, followed by olive oil mixed with lemon juice, so I started the fast this morning.

I just heard about Stone Free. Can I start taking the Stone Free now? I know it looks like it's ideal if you take it for a few weeks or months beforehand, but obviously... I didn't know about it. I didn't even know about Gall Bladders until a few days ago, when mine started whining!

 

Yes, you can start the Stone Free immediately. I had some problems a few years ago and was in such agony that I actually thought of going to a hospital. Then, I remembered I had Stone Free in the kitchen. I took six and all the pain was gone. I continued with six every half hour for a few hours and then cut back to 12 per day for two months, then six per day for a couple more months. I have never since had an acute attack, just an occasional reminder that it's time for another round of pills.

It goes without saying that if you happen to be one of the exceptions to the rule, you better keep the number of your doctor handy!

 

Just a question-
I did the gall bladder flush with olive oil and lemon and was disappointed that only a few "lima beans" (as Ingrid calls them) came out. Should I assume from this result that my gall bladder is pretty clean? Or could I have done something wrong?
Just wondering...

 

I wonder how a lima bean sized object and more than one of them is disappointing? This is amazing for such an effort. I never passed more than sand (which I couldn't even see) but then I did it preventatively rather than in response to acute symptoms. Later, when I did have symptoms, I took Stone Free and lots of turmeric first so it's all emulsified away before the flush.

You results are celebratory, but I have a hunch you are not interested in fries right now!

 

Ingrid,

I experienced some bloating, & pressure under ribcage on right side and a little pain (not bad) went to MD (YUK ! I don't trust those people) he sent me for a sonogram and a pipida scan of the gall bladder. sonogram showed no visible stones, some sludge. pipida scan came back from radiologist as not normal but unremarkable. i have had a mostly healthy diet for over 25 years. organic, no hydrogenated oils, olive oil, watching trans fats. eating lots of veggies, salads, fish, some meat, drink only distilled water, etc. anyway, for the last 4 months I still have this slight pain under rib cage, pressure sensation and now it seems to be getting worse.
Would the stone free be good for me? should I do the fast and oil flush?
Please help with ideas ! don't want to lose my gall bladder.

Art

 

I'd at least try Stone Free, almost nothing to lose and perhaps much to gain. People with acute symptoms usually need 5-7 bottles before they are finished. Others may be able to clean out the sludge in less time with fewer tablets, but it really is amazing how fat metabolism and storage improve when the obstacles to proper functioning are addressed.

 

I am starting a new topic on oils and fats, but by way of transition, I would like to say that for all intents and purposes, there is no decent oil in any supermarket. As I told a friend a few days ago, if people want to improve their diets significantly without changing a single recipe or undertaking any austerities, the absolute easiest way to improve the diet is to use a good quality oil: cold pressed, unadulterated oil that is packaged in a container that does not permit any light at all to pass. All oils are sensitive to heat, light, and air. In the processing of most oils, the equipment itself overheats. Cold pressed oils use very expensive equipment, usually manufactured in Germany. Next, the oils must be immediately put into containers that block all light. I can't tell you how many times I have walked into a health foods store and seen an oil in a clear glass bottle in the window!

Yikes!! This is poison. Many tests of plastics have been performed and only two plastics were found to be chemically stable, both expensive Danish plastics, one brown and the other black. These are used by Barlean and Omega, the two main producers of good quality oils.

Third, oil deteriorates when exposed to air. To prevent free radical formation, you can add spices to the oils. Turmeric is the best but it has a flavor one might not want in everything. I always add spices to my ghee and usually to oils.

I duplicated my oil pages from astroheal.com onto kitchendoctor a few days ago. You can order these oils and, if you are like me, you won't ever want to try any other oil again. I am particularly crazy about the hazel nut and pistachio oils, but for general use, only the sesame and sunflower are affordable for most people but the olive oil is also suitable.

http://www.kitchendoctor.com/oils.html

 

Ingrid,

Thanks for responding.... I will try the stone free and see what happens.... any suggestions on diet ? I have also read that high estrogen levels can play a big part in gall bladder function.... any thoughts there?

Thanks,
Schmitty

 

The liver flush is a very simple procedure that will clean your liver of gall stones, if you have any. I don't know about all those Hindu terms about cold and hot and wet and damp, doesn't make any difference to me. The procedure I followed was not the one on this site, but it produced a lot of stones, 250 stones this last time, over one hundred the first time. I drank concoctions of epson salts with water, also I drank 8 ounces of olive oil with 8 ounces of grapefruit juice. I drank the oil at once and did not have any aversion to oils after a couple of days. The stones seem to be liver's defence against parasites, viruses and bacteria, it builds a stone around them to isolate them from the body. I feel great, more energetic and peaceful after each cleanse. The liver is the seat of anger, cleanses will help you deal with emotional anger.

 

What do you mean by "the gall bladder has to have been stretched a lot" I am unsure if I have gall stones. Expecting to have an ultrasound done soon,Also please advise if the stone free should be done before trying this to be on the safe side. As I am in Canada , could you advise where this product is shipped from. Thank for a great site.

 

Having had an ultrasound, I have been diagnosed with having a gallstone, 1.71 cm, in the neck of my gallbladder. My G.I. doctor has advised that I should have my gallbladder removed. In addition, I have an enlarged spleen. Is there any relation? I am on coumadin due to a hereditary condition that (in addition to birth control pills) caused a blood clot in my lung. I would like to avoid surgery at any cost. As far as the gallstone symptoms, I have the nausea, but my back pain is more in the lower back, not under the shoulder blade. Have you heard of this? My doctor is telling me that the only way to figure out if it's the gallstone giving me pain is to remove the gallbladder. This doesn't make sense to me.

 

First, to Dianne!

Our products are shipped from Washington State.

In my opinion, herbal formulas shouldn't be looked at in such a specific way as Stone Free is for gall stones. In reality, the product tends to aid fat metabolism through emulsification. Ergo, a person who needs such a produce is not necessarily only a person with gall stones but perhaps even someone who no longer has a gallbladder and whose fat metabolism issues are worse since the removal. These people often have fatty deposits under their skin that feel bumpy or they have issues with sexual fluids. They do not lubricate because the fluids are too thick.

When such people take Stone Free, those lumps tend to disappear, gradually, not all at once. This is an extremely safe product, one that I have used for 15 years now. So, the answer to your question is really that if you have a problem, the solution is to start on a healing regime. If you have a need for a baseline diagnosis, you should have the ultrasound before assuming that you know what is wrong.

This is the gray area in self-administering treatments. Many people write me convinced that they have this or that, but sometimes, their imagination has gone a little wild. However, as a young man in India once pointed out to me, "Even imagination does not arise from Nothingness." Explain the origin of these thoughts and we might uncover our personal truths?

 

Now, Diana,

This is a tricky situation and probably the tip of the iceberg. However, just as I was saying to Dianne, the underlying issue is energetic. In your case, there would seem to be an extreme excess of what in Ayurveda is called "kapha." A Western naturopath might call this catarrh or phlegm and a Chinese practitioner might use a term such as dampness, chi congestion, or coldness. It comes down to fundamental metabolic imbalances.

The main polarity is hot-cold, but this is really dependent on the fire-water balance and it determines, in turn, dryness and wetness, i.e. how much fluidity there is and how much stagnation there is. It really doesn't matter if we use seemingly scientific terms such as catabolic (fire) and anabolic (water) or more mystical words like yang and yin. It's the same. So, assuming some is more watery, then a birth control pill might aggravate the watery tendencies and produce complications involving all systems of the body that might be affected by excess water.

I can never advise another person on what to do. Your confidence in treatment is directly proportional to your understanding of yourself and your needs. I can, however, suggest that you try to eliminate all potentially aggravating factors to see what happens. For instance, if you religiously avoid microwaved food, dairy products, poor quality fats and oils, foods that have been stored and reheated (like frozen foods and leftovers), and carbohydrates, you might see a lot of improvement, enough to warrant trying an herbal approach. However, if you are having attacks and your panic button is sounding and the pain is excruciating and your doctor is ready, that's another story.

Here's another way to look at this. I'm a vegetarian so the image is a little gross, but when you cook meat, what happens to the fat at various temperatures? At some point the fat melts. If you consume fats that are liquid at a low temperature, these fats are used as fuel and they actually stimulate the metabolism. However, if you use a heavier fat, say one that is solid at room temperature, then you slow down metabolism. It's like driving a car whose carburetor isn't adjusted.

I personally believe that you will achieve more over the long-term by understanding the idiosyncrasies of your own metabolism and learning how to manage the symptoms that arise from your particular imbalances than you will by any quick fix, but the choice is obviously yours.

Best wishes,

Ingrid

 

Dear Ingrid,

I have just been to a G.I. doctor who took blood and is having me have an ultrasound to determine whether or not I have gallstones. I am 25 and have been told and believe that I am an AC. I also get migraines and other heqadaches. But this one is a mystery to me, because I have never felt so much pain before as I did the other night, when I woke up to a stomach full of malice. I had eaten Mexican food for dinner, but this is hardly uncommon for me, though I did fall asleep with a slightly uncomfortable stomach. It felt like something was going to emerge, or as if something had leaked out. I was in too much pain to understand, but I was experiencing waves of pain, just about my belly button. I don't have insurance and I don't want to embark on a costly journey into medical hell, but at the same time, the other night felt dangerous and scary. What I am wondering is, would it be premature to try the apple cleanse, and if this is an ulcer, is it just dumb to do this?

 

Sarah,

Sorry to hear about this alarming experience. I might be suffering from Friday whatever, but what is AC? I'm sure as soon as you tell me, I feel like a dunce, but?

One single sudden attack such as you described, isolated from any previous ordeal of a similar type is not really normal for someone with gall stones. Therefore, I think you are right to get some professional assessment to determine what caused this.

Without a lot more information, it's impossible to know whether had a battle with chili or something more medically definable. However, the question is really what you might be doing while you wait for the results of the tests?

I would try alkalizing the body, drink lots of green juices, take chlorophyll (which we have), and avoid the things you ate (and the restaurant) the other night. Beans can be terrible, especially if undercooked and not seasoned. Lots of heavy cheese and avocados can be challenging and so can tainted food, but you don't want to shut your eyes to the possibility of a health issue that needs to be acknowledged and treated.

The migraines are another issue. I generally find that they, too, are aggravated by indigestion. They often disappear with a nice swig of ginger: juiced, in tea, or powdered and washed down with a little honey and warm water. Another trick I learned is medicated ear drops (which we have online in the close-out specials).

Let me know what your reports are, but off-hand, I'd say not to go the apple juice route at the moment. Find out what is wrong first and do something simple and gentle until you know more. Artichokes are probably one of the easiest of all foods to digest.

 

Beginning 4 weeks after the birth of my child by c-section, I had sharp pain in my lower right side and back. Later this pain became a constant daily ache and feels like inflamation. After many doctor visits, scans, lab work, the doctor discovered a lesion on my liver and says my gall bladder constracts 43% of normal with no gall stones present. The doctor wants to remove my gall bladder. The doctor says gall stones or infection could develop in the future. I'm not to sure about it. The doctor can not definitely say the pain is from the gall bladder vs. the liver. What do you think about my symptoms? Is it my gall bladder? Will your flush treatment work for me?

 

It's always hard to say what symptoms relate to what problems, but gall bladder pain is rarely consistent. It is associated with eating and usually subsides once the meal has been digested. If the symptoms are definitely worse after eating fatty foods, you have a clue.

Given your history, I would definitely consider the possibility of infection.

Obviously, I cannot advise given the situation, but since you have had a lot of tests run and nothing seems absolutely conclusive, why not consider an immune boosting protocol along with something to protect the liver?

If the symptoms subside, you are probably on the right track. If you have an infection, it is really unlikely that removing the gall bladder is going to resolve your problems.

Using Ayurvedic protocols, there would be herbs that are safe to use even if you are nursing your baby. There are also regimes for purifying your milk to make sure that nothing is being transmitted to your baby; but these decisions are best made on the basis of quite a bit more information.

Off the top of my head, I would imagine that the onset is related to the C-section rather than your diet. Thus, while the flush would not be dangerous, it might not accomplish anything either. On the other hand, something similar to our own Indigo Drops might make a quick difference, but you'd have to judge that yourself.

Do you have fever accompanying the inflammation?

 

Hello all,

I have done the gall bladder flush about three times.
I have done it twice using Hulda Reghr Clark's way and once by another doctor.

I have gotten out a total so far of about a cup of soft stones. The last time I did it I didn't get out any. I did get out alot of flakes and junk though. I feel my bladder filling up again causing a feeling of a very slight dull pain right under and below my right rib cage. It feels like there's a baloon expanding in there.

Believe it or not I've frozen the stones to prove to anyone that the flush works!

I just ordered a bunch of "Stone Free" and hope this helps to get these babies out of my bladder!

Tony

 

Ingrid,

Thank you for responding to my message. No, I do not have a fever with the feeling of inflamation. I forgot to mention that it has been 3 years since the c-section. However, I will try the protocols that you mentioned.

 

Hi Ingrid:

I wrote some time ago seeking advice on the use of Stone Free. I have now completed my second 180-tablet bottle taking 6-8 per day. I must say I feel as good as I have felt in a long time. I have cancelled the gall bladder surgery that was to be done this coming week.
Can the Stone Free be continued as a "maintenance" medication? Do you know of any limits as to how long it can be taken? Any suggestions on a dose, or should I stick with what seems to be working best now?

Thanks,
Brad

 

Brad,

I'm pleased that you are so much better. My experience with the Stone Free is that one can go through 5-7 bottles. I base this on the fact that people who do the olive oil and lemon juice fast after taking Stone Free for 2-3 months report no dramatic events with the flush. They also have little or no trouble with fat metabolism.

This said, the gains are, as you suspected, not permanent because nothing inherent in the Stone Free changes your body's basic functioning. All the Stone Free is relieve the body of years of accumulation. Therefore, periodic use of Stone Free tends to support long-term freedom from symptoms. One can also keep it around in case of a really injudicious binge on fatty foods. However, when this happens, 6-12 tablets ought to be enough penance to make the symptoms go away.

Short of dietary changes and changes in the quality of oils used, I know of no permanent cure. Some people simply do not produce enough gastric secretions to metabolize fats so they need to perform periodic maintenance.

We do carry high quality, cold pressed, organic oils. It helps a lot to avoid the supermarket oils, but the prices are not even close.

Again, glad things are moving in the right direction.

Ingrid

 

I whould like your comments on Raymond Peat's information on Coconut Oil and unsaturated fats.This is posted at www.efn.org/~raypeat and www.mercola.com/2001/mar/24/coconut_oil.htm. According to this biologist specilizing in physiology, Coconut oil increases the metabolic rate thru stimulating the thyroid and unsaturated fats suppress the thyroid, leading a host of illness associated a "slow" metabolism.

 

This seems to be the consensus these days. Coconut oil seems to have an up and down relationship with nutritional pundits. Right now, it is up.

Ayurvedic medicine holds it in great respect. I personally believe that much depends on how an oil is handled. If it is fresh and processed without heat, it can be valuable. Coconut oil seems to have a very short shelf life.

I use it as a base in some products and often have to go through half a dozen companies before finding one that has a suitable product, i.e., not rancid and discolored.

 

 

I have just had an ultrasound test that showed I have three gall stones, one measuring approx. .9mm in diameter. I am considering using accupuncture and accupressure to help stimulate my metabolism and regulate the flow of my qi. Has anyone ever heard of successful cases where such treatments were used?

Also, as I live in China, I do not have immediate acccess to Stone Free, but can try the flush. Is a flush advisable before using Stone Free, if, for example, the gall stone is nearly 1 mm in diameter?

Thanks

 

You can still use the apple juice and/or olive oil and lemon juice. It should be simple with such small stones. Most people are passing stones that are much, much bigger.

 

This conversation is long so it is being continued on a new page

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